Go to Install Scripts and find Wordpress under the Blog, whereas someone could be looking for it under Content Management System; Drupal is in fact under CMS, but then it could be under Commerce as there is very popular and powerful Drupal Commerce project, which could easily leave lots of projects under the Commerce categorization far behind. WordPress is also have plugin for commerce. And why Joomla was honored to be among CMS aristocracy while WordPress is standing modestly under Blog. And I could go on and on with this kind of whys.
Why? Simply because one project could be easily taxonomized under different categories at the same time. And it is simply not correct to list them under particular categories just because *min developer felt so. So I believe to make it more intuitive either (1) the categorization of scripts must go; just list all the scripts alphabetically and users will find their scripts much quicker without confusion; or (2) assign scripts to multiple categories and let users to just filter categories from drop-down menu. With static themes Virtualmin had before it was not possible, but I am pretty sure Ilia could implement this kind of filter.
Whatever you, guys, do but please make it feel intuitive as the current implementation of the scripts page is really confusing.
Thanks for consideration!
Comments
Submitted by JamieCameron on Tue, 09/05/2017 - 23:20 Comment #2
Yeah, maybe we can just drop categories ... some scripts have migrated categories since they were originally added. Personally I always just search for the one I want to install.
It's something Ilia is gonna work on at some point. We know it's ugly and a bit cumbersome right now...I don't know that we should lose category info, but maybe it needs to be just a field in the table rather than the way it is indexed in the table. Alphabetical wouldn't be awful.
Submitted by yngens on Wed, 09/06/2017 - 12:02 Comment #6
Categories are fine, but not in the current confusing state. Taking into attention that things in *min world change slowly, they could be taken off for now and whenever Ilia could do this better on Authentic Theme they might come back.
Submitted by JamieCameron on Thu, 09/07/2017 - 20:13 Comment #8
I agree that this shouldn't be driven by the theme ... that's the wrong level to make these kinds of UI changes at.
Submitted by JamieCameron on Thu, 09/07/2017 - 20:13 Comment #8
I agree that this shouldn't be driven by the theme ... that's the wrong level to make these kinds of UI changes at.
Submitted by yngens on Thu, 09/07/2017 - 20:31 Comment #9
You guys can keep conversation to yourselves, but the essence of the issue would be still there. Nobody is interested on what you agree on to avoid finally getting to the subject matter itself, but everybody would just gain if this kind of suggestions would not be side-kicked and actually get resolved. You know the problem is there, so why not talk about what can be DONE and not what you agree with between yourself. Jamie, the whole reporting constructive suggestions sucks!!! So much frustration when you actually want your product to start advancing and getting better and better.
yngens, we appreciate feedback, but nothing good happens without a little discussion first. Keep it civil and don't yell at Jamie when he doesn't make the change you want the moment you want it. ;-)
Jamie is the busiest of all of us (family, kids, another full-time job, etc.). We're going to work on the UI for installers, but we can't fix it right this instant. Keep the conversation civil and we can sort out what a better UI looks like and start working in it.
Submitted by yngens on Fri, 09/08/2017 - 18:12 Comment #13
Again, you my attract as many supporters and partisans as you wish, it is your territory after all, but the problem is still there - it is just nonsense to put, let's say, WordPress under only Blog category when it is in fact more CMS then blog tool, and then it is also e-Commerce platform, and so on and so on. It is way better just to drop categories right away and take all of your time to come up with another implementation of categorization. But in current state it is just more confusing than useful and makes Virtualmin look silly. I am telling this purely out of love towards Virtualmin and I want it to get rid of this kind of nonsenses.
Pluralism is good thing on not so obvious silliness like the current categorization. If it would be generally ok with just couple items slipped to wrong places, then I would not be so much critical. But with items which can go to only single categories whatever you do you will have lot's of menu items in wrong places according to different parties. So either make multiple categorization available soon or just drop it for now until there is another way. Is it really so hard?
Submitted by JamieCameron on Sat, 09/09/2017 - 19:09 Comment #14
So I'm open to moving scripts between categories if they have changed since originally added. However, a UI for multiple categories would be a bit trickier ... in the current UI, there is a list of scripts under category headings. If a script could be in more than one, would it appear twice?
Submitted by yngens on Sun, 09/10/2017 - 13:41 Comment #15
Why not? I am not familiar well with Joomla, however both WordPress and Drupal are blog platforms, CMSs, eCommerce platforms at the same time. It wouldn't take much space if they appear twice or multiple times under different categories, but then it would become much clearer for users and easier to navigate.
Submitted by craigh on Mon, 09/11/2017 - 15:53 Pro Licensee Comment #17
I too thought the categorisation was odd when I first saw it, but I moved onto more important things. Now I mostly install Wordpress for users, so I just hit the "end" key to get to the bottom of the page and carry on. If I know the name of a package I'm looking for, I "Ctrl-F" it. I personally don't spend a lot -- well, any -- time browsing the categories, window shopping.
However, I can see users with initiative trying to decide which package to install based on the categorisation -- if they're looking for a CMS, for example -- so I can see the categorisation helping.
I also like the idea of an alphabetical list, with each package tagged with the categor(y|ies) into which it fits, with multiple tags for those packages that now fit into multiple categories. You would probably need an explanation somewhere on the page -- perhaps a tool tip when the mouse pointer hovers over the table cell with the categories/tags listed -- explaining why a specific package is in multiple categories. But you'd need more than a simple sort; you'd need to filter based on the user typing "blog" (for example) into the filter field. But then, what makes sense to me probably won't make sense to many other people.
Although I pay for the "Pro" product, I have to second what KitchM said about Jamie, Joe, Eric and Ilia. Some days it takes more than the promise of a pay cheque to go to work, and a little empathy can go a long way.
Craig
Submitted by JamieCameron on Mon, 09/11/2017 - 23:17 Comment #18
Right, that kind of UI would work - instead of categories, there could be tags that each page could have one or more of. I'll look into implementing this for the next release.
Submitted by JamieCameron on Fri, 09/22/2017 - 15:16 Comment #19
Ok, I've added support in Virtualmin for multiple categories, and changed the UI to not group then - instead they are searchable, and listed in a separate column.
Which of the current scripts (other than wordpress and drupal) are currently mis-categorized?
Submitted by JamieCameron on Sat, 02/10/2018 - 14:05 Comment #22
There should be a "categories" column on the right