Can a combination of cloudmin and virtualmin sort my problem?

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#1 Thu, 10/29/2009 - 11:00

Can a combination of cloudmin and virtualmin sort my problem?

I'm looking for a solution the a service i would like to offer, after reading the information on here im unsure if cloudmin or virtualmin can do what i want.

I would like to have a centralised management interface to manage distributed server that are installed at my clients premises.

The servers will be bare metal so i will need a supported host environment this will be running managed virtual servers.

I will need a full admin interface, but i would like provide the client with a cut down interface allow them to restart image, take backups etc.

On top of this i would like to offer a managed installation of web applications. The client will have an interface where we can list the programs offered and they will automatically install.

I would also like to be able to offer managed virtual images for clients with there own virtualisation infrastructure.

Could this be done with a combination of cloudmin and virtualmin?

Thanks in advance.

Sat, 10/31/2009 - 01:32

It sounds like most of this can be done using Cloudmin and Virtualmin..

Cloudmin can do the virtual system management, including reboot, imaging, and creation .. assuming a supported virtualization type like Xen is being used.

Virtualmin can do the installation of web applications - we support quite a large list, like Wordpress, Drupal, SugarCRM and so on..


Sat, 10/31/2009 - 08:08 (Reply to #2)

Would i need to have a hypervisor or a full linux installation for cloudmin to manage?

If a hypervisor can be used which ones are supported? What is the time frame for support for vmware exi?

Can cloudmin handle pushing new images to the servers?

Would cloudmin have a centralised management interface or one per server?

Can we control the list of applications a customer can install? As we would like to create an image where only a single application can be installed, and a separate image where multiple applications can be installed.

does cloudmin support migration (stop then start) or live migration of images?

Sat, 10/31/2009 - 14:52 (Reply to #3)

1) You need to have a linux install with a kernel that supports Xen or your chosen virtualization type.

2) The supported types are Xen, OpenVZ, Vservers and Zones. VMware is planned in the long-term, but isn't under development.

3) Yes, Cloudmin can re-create systems from images.

4) It has a centralized management interface.

5) Yes, you could set this up with some customization for Virtualmin.

6) It supports both live and non-live migration of Xen instances.


Sat, 10/31/2009 - 17:43 (Reply to #4)

Does cloudmin require libvirt to administer xen images?

Is KVM on the development roadmap?

As there will be a management server and the node machines will be in remote locations can i use cloudmin copy images on the management server to the node datastore? (i dont see your answer to 3 relates to my question 3)

how many instance licences would i need to before qualifying to become a hosting providing?

Sat, 10/31/2009 - 18:26 (Reply to #5)

1) No, it doesn't need libvirt .. it uses the xm command and edits Xen .cfg files directly.

2) Yes, KVM is planned .. but is likely a few months off.

3) Cloudmin keeps a master copy of each system image on the master system, and copies them to host systems as needed. They are also cached on the host to avoid un-necessary transfers.

4) 250+


Sun, 11/01/2009 - 07:10 (Reply to #6)

Sorry for the amount of questions.

Just so i understand how cloudmin and virtualmin fit together.

i would have 2 physical server, one cloudmin master and one slave running on centos. Clodmin will control each node that is running centos as the host os.

One each node i will run two (or more) images, one running openVZ to handle all additional web 2.0 applications. one running moodle.

Will virtualmin need be install on the host os or installed on each guest image?

If its required within each guest images how does that affect licensing as they will be only hosting sub domains of my clients domain. Will i need to purchase a virtualmin licence for each image?

As i want to customise what software can be installed i presume i will need to purchase virtualmin pro?

Can cloudmin running on amazon ec2 control server outside of ec2?

Sun, 11/01/2009 - 13:27 (Reply to #7)

The typical setup if you have two physical systems would be like this :

  • One Cloudmin master, with kernel support for OpenVZ

  • One additional Cloudmin host system, also with OpenVZ support

  • The master controls both itself and the host, and can create OpenVZ virtual systems on each of them.

  • Within each virtual system you can install Virtualmin (GPL or Pro) to host domains. For each system running Pro, a separate license would be needed .. although if you are going to be running lots of systems each hosting only a single domain, we could work something out.

  • Cloudmin running on EC2 can control systems outside of EC2, although I don't recommend this due to the network latency betweem the master and hosts.


Sun, 11/01/2009 - 15:01 (Reply to #8)

Our cloudmin master will be hosted by us and all the cloudmin hosts will be location as the clients site. The clients internet connection will vary from 8mb to 40mb. Will this latency be an issue?

I would like to run openvz within a guest image as i to be able run different distro's including windows as guest along side it, is this possible?

Is possible to migrate openVZ instances betweens servers?

can an external cloudmin master manage ec2 instances?

thanks for the point about the possibility of working unde a tailored licensing model.

Sun, 11/01/2009 - 17:42 (Reply to #9)

The only time network speed could become an issue is when image files are transferred from the master to host systems - these can be up to 500M in size.

You can't run windows inside OpenVZ - it can be run within Xen, but Cloudmin can't manage or set this up.

Yes, you can move OpenVZ instances between host systems.

Yes, a Cloudmin master outside of EC2 can full manage EC2 instances.


Mon, 11/02/2009 - 08:05 (Reply to #10)

if the transfer takes a long time if will cloudmin timeout out and fail?

Can cloudmin allow for the start stop and reboot of a windows xen image?

Can a openvz instance be migrated from outside ec2 to to within ec2?

Mon, 11/02/2009 - 20:14 (Reply to #11)

1) I guess if it takes so long that the TCP connection times out, Cloudmin will fail the transfer.

2) Yes, it could start, stop and reboot a Windows Xen instance.

3) You mean from a physical system hosting OpenVZ instances to ac EC2 instance that hosts OpenVZ within it? Yes, absolutely..

I would be interested to know if you actually get an OpenVZ-capable kernel running on EC2 though, as that would be handy for testing.


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