Cloudmin Presales Questions

Submitted by just_me on Thu, 08/04/2016 - 16:01

i have a quite small (!) problem.

Client has two servers running openvz with more than 20 containers on debian 6 using a out of date openvz web panel.

As far as i understood already, the underlying operationsystem has to be the same as the guests, given i install openvz from scratch. Now i run into the problem, that an upgrade to Debian 7 is no option due to removing the openvz code from kernel in Debian 7 and also Debian 8 is no option either, due to change of the init system.

Now i am looking into cloudmin. As for your documentation you recommend using CentOS as host os if one wants / needs OpenVZ. Since you support different virtualization technologies: Does this mean, that i need to create new OpenVZ containers with CentOS and rebuild everything from scratch or could i somehow use the existing containers and upgrade / reinstall one at a time? What other options do you see?

Alas, if i setup OpenVZ on a Cloudmin Pro server under CentOS, does this force me to be not able to use a Ubuntu guest or Win2006 Server guest for example?

I have also some VMware virtual machines, which i would like to put into cloudmin for easy access. What is your suggestion to convert the virtual machines into and what to do with the vmdk virtual drive?

I am looking for a flexible solution, where i can use OpenVZ containers, VMware and virtualbox machines. And my Virtualmin servers, which i can, according to your sales page.

Any insight to share, please? The different concepts are confusing me, most of all OpenVZ, because this is different from all other ones. If i am running ESX Server on Linux i can have Windows guests and vice versa, but if i run OpenVZ under Debian 6 all my guest have to be Debian 6, correct?

Licencing: Your licensing Scheme for Cloudmin is, that i can have up to a certain amount of number, lets say 50, hosts or virtual machines or a mixture of both, like wise 6 Servers, and one with 20 vm's one with 5 vm's, 3 with 6 vm's each and one server without vm's, correct? As i remember your Virtualminpricing is per server per count of virtual servers, right?

I also assume, that i can give ressources to each virtrual machine / container. With OpenVZ i can do this while VM's are running. Does this also apply to other technologies? For Backuppurposes the containers of OpenVZ have to be stopped and restarted after backup is done This will be made automatically in the Cloudmin backupfeature, i think, is it the same with other technologies?

30 days money back - Will you charge the credit card 30 days after initial buying software?

Well then, thanks in advance Best

PS: Does Cloudmin use also the new theme like Webmin/Virtualmin? Since Cloudmin GPL doesn't support OpenVZ, it does not make sense at all going through it. And, someone said, there would be Hetzner documentation for installing Cloudmin there, i cannot find it, so if anyone can drop a link, i'd appreciate. Thank you all.

Status: 
Active

Comments

Submitted by andreychek on Thu, 08/04/2016 - 20:13

Jamie, is that a restriction of OpenVZ? Do the OpenVZ guests have to be the same OS as the host?

Regarding the other questions --

Licencing: Your licensing Scheme for Cloudmin is, that i can have up to a certain amount of number, lets say 50, hosts or virtual machines or a mixture of both, like wise 6 Servers, and one with 20 vm's one with 5 vm's, 3 with 6 vm's each and one server without vm's, correct? As i remember your Virtualminpricing is per server per count of virtual servers, right?

Cloudmin's pricing is per Virtual Machine. Your Cloudmin Virtual Machines can be spread out across any number of hosts (servers).

And Virtualmin's pricing is per-domain, all on a single server.

I also assume, that i can give ressources to each virtrual machine / container. With OpenVZ i can do this while VM's are running. Does this also apply to other technologies? For Backuppurposes the containers of OpenVZ have to be stopped and restarted after backup is done This will be made automatically in the Cloudmin backupfeature, i think, is it the same with other technologies?

Yes, you can give different resources to different Virtual Machines. Most resource changes would require a reboot of the guest, but you can change the resources after creating it.

30 days money back - Will you charge the credit card 30 days after initial buying software?

The licenses are indeed subscriptions. So you can go monthly, or yearly. After that time, your card would be charged again. And you can cancel at any time.

PS: Does Cloudmin use also the new theme like Webmin/Virtualmin? Since Cloudmin GPL doesn't support OpenVZ, it does not make sense at all going through it. And, someone said, there would be Hetzner documentation for installing Cloudmin there, i cannot find it, so if anyone can drop a link, i'd appreciate

The new Authentic theme does indeed work with Cloudmin. Ilia is also working on some significant improvements for it in the future.

Regarding Hetzner -- we don't have any documentation specific to it, unfortunately. We've had some problems trying to get Virtual Machines working there in the past, though some customers have been able to get that working. You might have an easier time with a different provider, though you could certainly give it a try.

Submitted by JamieCameron on Thu, 08/04/2016 - 22:31

You can run any Linux distribution under OpenVZ, but only Linux - because it shares the same kernel with the host you can't run Windows or BSD for example. For that, you'd need KVM.

Submitted by just_me on Fri, 08/05/2016 - 01:30

so i would need to use fedora for open vz and could run any linux under that, even a different one like Debian. But that said, if i would need openvz container, also cloudmin would have to run under fedora, correct? I was wondering whether i could have openvz Contaiiner and windows container under kvm on the same server. Or is the bottom line, if i need a openvz container on a server, i can't use another virtualization technology at all? By the way: Do i need to settle to a technology per server or could i use kvm, xen etc. mixed on ONE server. Am a little confused....

Thanks for help

Submitted by singhdd on Fri, 08/05/2016 - 02:17

Generally you can use KVM and LXC on same machine. But I think since OpenVZ needs a specific kernel you will have to keep a machine for OpenVZ only. I would recommend using KVM. I think thats the best way to virtualise. I run 5 VPS on a single Hetzner server (i7, 3TB, 16GB) but I am not using Cloudmin. Couldn't configure it. I would love to shift to cloudmin if i find a guide to setup. I have wasted quite a few euros trying to get this up and running on cloudmin. I am not trying to discourage you, I am just sharing my experience.

Submitted by just_me on Fri, 08/05/2016 - 02:23

Combing this website, someone spoke of Hetzner documentation being different than cloudmin documentation and i think Eric said to follow Hetzner guide, which isn't available anymore. I will ask Hetzner support and get back if i get a reply, which will help us.

Submitted by andreychek on Fri, 08/05/2016 - 09:25

Note that if you wish to run Virtualmin (Pro or GPL) on the guest, I would recommend against using Fedora, which isn't supported by Virtualmin, and has a very low life span for a server distribution.

I would recommend using one of the following distributions for any server running Virtualmin:

https://www.virtualmin.com/os-support.html

Submitted by just_me on Fri, 08/05/2016 - 09:42

got in touch with Hetzner, but they do not have a recommended practice to get Cloudmin working, they pointed me to their forum, but i am still waiting for getting access.

So: Can i somehow get vmware / openvz containers / virtualmachines to work under KVM or do i have to rebuilt from scratch?

Submitted by andreychek on Fri, 08/05/2016 - 10:06

You may want to ask in the Forums here, to see if some of our Cloudmin users can share their experiences.

Jamie and I have both given it a try at Hetzner, and found it to be an unusually complicated process.

We rarely recommend against a particular provider, but if Jamie and I have such a hard time trying to get that setup, it unfortunately may mean Cloudmin users would have a hard time as well.

Because of that, our suggestion is to use another provider if possible.

Submitted by JamieCameron on Fri, 08/05/2016 - 19:17

Regarding KVM and openvz - you can run a KVM virtual machine, and then run openvz inside of that. This nested virtualization is fully supported by Cloudmin.

Submitted by just_me on Sat, 08/06/2016 - 01:17

And what about vmware vm's? Tia Best

Submitted by masterg0g0 on Sat, 08/06/2016 - 01:30 Pro Licensee

Hello just_me,

Just want to give you a heads up with hetzner, I have been mostly at this stage being able to setup a cloudmin host on a root server with hetzner. Working with Jamie/Andre to get the last part sorted, I would be then posting the details and procedure. Having said that, Centos os does not play so well with hetzner routed method of networking. so you would want to consider Debian based distro for the host system.

Personally, i want to be able to host both LXC/ openVZ and KVM guest machines..

Thanks, Rohit

Submitted by andreychek on Sat, 08/06/2016 - 09:02

just_me, I'm not sure I understand your question there, what is it that you would like to know about vmware?

Submitted by just_me on Sun, 08/07/2016 - 03:21

i have some VMware virtual machines which i have to move onto a internet server, so that not only i am able to access them. If i use Cloudmin /KVM combo, whereas i learned, that i would be able to run OpenVZ under KVM too, what would i need to do to get my VMwware virtual machines up and running. Do i have to convert them (vhd-wise) or can i create a new VM under KVM and attach my vmware virtual drive and everything is easy? Just wondering.

best

Submitted by just_me on Sun, 08/07/2016 - 03:26

Thank you. I once had a Cloudmin setup (GPL) with a KVM under debian about two years ago, and tried to setup also some vm's which gloriously faild, so i didn't look into it deeper. Now i have some OpenVZ things lying around and i need to pickup this again. And i thought technology might have been more advanced now making it a littel bit easier. Would like to read your how-to; it would be great if i could get it working this time ;-)

Thanks and best

Submitted by andreychek on Sun, 08/07/2016 - 09:15

I haven't personally done this before, but it does look like there are ways to convert or import VMware images to KVM images.

You'll either need to run a command to convert the image, or it might just need imported as a new drive, I'm not sure which yet... when you're ready to do this, what we'll do is check what image type you have, and if it's not obvious to the two of us how to do it, we'll get Jamie involved to give us a hand.

There's some info about that here:

https://help.ubuntu.com/community/KVM/FAQ#Using_and_Converting_VMware_Vi...

Submitted by JamieCameron on Sun, 08/07/2016 - 12:26

If you can convert a VMware image into a raw disk image, it should be possible to import that into Cloudmin and then use it to create new VMs.

Submitted by just_me on Thu, 08/11/2016 - 00:52

i just bought a new server for office, where i will try to get up things going (without the hassle of uploading my vmwares with 50gb+ image to Hetzner) to give it a shot with KVM first, before i try openvz. Both have same priority, but vmware images are much larger lol So i can figure out vmware on kvm, document it and later on trying the same on hetzner.

Since i have some old Debian6 OpenVZ containers, i have some vmWare images (windows, debian, ubuntu) and some virtualbox types (some Linuxes): Which basic Linux would you use for cloudmin, given that i need to "upgrade" those debian 6 openvz's somehow, preferrably to debian 8, whereas i do not know, which kind of software is installed, and whether this 20+ containers will work under debian 8 given the architectural changes and the problem, that there is no specific openvz kernel anymore from debian anymore. Virtualmin would run on other servers, would like to centralize administration too, which should be possible according to the product page of cloudmin.

What i am trying to do is: Having two identical openvz containers, running under debian 6. Using one for the upgradeprocess to figure out, whether it would work or whether i would have to rebuld everything from scratch. (which would be tedious, two of those containers have apache solr installed, i found out recently, one staging and one live container. What i also don't get is: Should i stay with openvz nested in KVM to run this 20+ containers? How about upgrading operatingsystem on host and vml's? If i use OpenVZ i am stuck with the kernel i use for the openvz host under KVM, right?

I am sorta confused now ;-) Tia

Submitted by andreychek on Thu, 08/11/2016 - 08:34

It shouldn't actually matter which Linux distribution you use -- I'd pick CentOS, Ubuntu LTS, or Debian. But which you choose is more personal preference, your images should work in any of them.

And yes OpenVZ does share the kernel is the host. If you're running OpenVZ within a KVM instance, it would be the kernel of the KVM instance.

You should be able to upgrade the hosts if you wish to, it generally works to use newer kernels in older distributions. Though you'd of course want to test it on a test container, before doing that on a live/production container.

Submitted by just_me on Mon, 08/15/2016 - 07:56

The ordered a server for local testing will arrive anytime, and will then give it a try with cloudmin Pro. Any idea how to convert vmware and virtualbox images in raw images?

Submitted by masterg0g0 on Mon, 08/15/2016 - 08:23 Pro Licensee

Hi, for VMware and i have tried this just over the weekend.. you copy the VMDK file onto the cloudmin host.. then via the cloudmin function convert(Import system image) it to a KVM image.. after this you simple create a KVM system by giving this so called image., the system will then boot.. after which you will have to do the networking and other setups.. i converted the SOGO ZEG image and was able to get the disk booting and working under my cloudmin host.

Submitted by JamieCameron on Mon, 08/15/2016 - 20:32

Awesome - I forgot that we supported importing VMDK images!