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Web Hosting and Cloud Computing Control Panels
2 days, and still no answers. Guess nobody knows.
Joseph Dobransky
Dude, you really are cranky. >:â
Dude, you really are cranky. >:â
So, maybe we also need some generic templates like:
- Web hosting server
- Workgroup print, asterisk, voicemail, groupware server
- Caching DNS + Squid + gateway server?
- Accounting, billing, human resources and payroll server
What other types of servers would we build for an enterprise NOC?
We'd also need a software suite for each type of server.
Ah, now I see why you're so confused!
<div class='quote'>So, maybe we also need some generic templates like:
- Web hosting server
- Workgroup print, asterisk, voicemail, groupware server
- Caching DNS + Squid + gateway server?
- Accounting, billing, human resources and payroll server
What other types of servers would we build for an enterprise NOC?</div>
You're thinking Server Templates are something they aren't. Server Templates are a feature of Virtualmin, not Webmin. Virtualmin is entirely and strictly about virtual hosting.
Only one of the templates you suggest would make any sense in the context of Virtualmin: web hosting server, but you don't need a special template for a web hosting server. They're all for web hosting servers--the templates just determine what resources the virtual server administrator has access to (mail, databases, various types of scripts, disk space, etc.). Your first post above was much closer to what Server Templates are about--they provide a means for creating "plans", but with far more flexibility than our competitors in this space.
The documentation about Server Templates is here:
http://www.virtualmin.com/documentation/id,server_settings_and_templates/
It's not perfect...and defaults are not listed in the documentation (though they are usually listed in the Default server template Virtualmin itself). But, I'm happy to answer any specific questions you have (and that, in turn, will tend to wind up in the docs). The problem with a really open-ended thread like this one is that it is asking for an entire rewrite of the Server Templates documentation. If I had the week or two to spare to make that happen, without making other aspects of the product suffer (like rolling out new versions, bugfixes, and answering support queries) it would have already happened. We're a two man shop for the next month or two, at least, so we have finite resources. We're trying to manage them to provide the best experience for our users...sometimes documentation is the most important thing, and sometimes answering questions here in the forum is more important. I may misjudge sometimes. ;-)
So, I'm not saying documentation isn't important. There's tons of documentation, and Jamie and I have both written published books about Webmin. We take documentation seriously. But, as long as the software keeps getting better, documentation is a never ending process.
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Hi Cranky, (Hmm, sounds like talking to my wife in the morning;-)
Again, You haven't explained specifically what you're looking for. As Joe pointed out, the templates are exclusively for hosting in VM. As for a starting point, try clicking " Create a template from the default settings." and create a copy of the default to play around with, renaming it something original like test template. Change the settings in that, create an account and see what it does. That's pretty harmless but instructive all the same, and gives you that " where their at" point.
The beauty of Joe's set up then is that, when you're happy with the various package setups as templates you can then save a backup of VM and restore it on the next box you want to setup without having to reinvent the wheel and so on and so on. :-)
Still can't edit so I'll add this.
Reread your original post. (scratching head) If you created a copy of the default and renamed it, why are you asking what the base is??? The contents are there to see and if you click the highlited text for each option you'll get on the spot info on each feature, not sure what more you want.....
So there is no list of defaults for the various sections?
Joseph Dobransky
Sorry about my misinformed post above.
I see what you mean... even if you create a copy of the default and default all the settings, you don't get to see what selections are by default. :\
Even so, it seems like you'd want to create a few templates for packages you know you will deploy, like for webhosting it would be Reseller, Basic, Basic + Scripts, High Storage and Bandwidth for heavy emailers, Advanced DB, and Commerce.
For a workgroup server, it would be more like Samba, Voicemail, etc. I didn't really have much problem paging through the template builder and selecting the stuff I needed for the sites I wanted to deploy.
This is pretty much betaville for the interface & documentation here... so questions like yours are bound to lead to FAQ's, tutorials, etc.
Still, there are <i>way</i> more choices and capabilities with templates vs. cPanel's or Plesk's package creation.
I asked in another thread for a setup recommendation for a particular hardware and environment, and a particular set of web hosting requirements. Just keep refining your questions and treat this thread as a learning experience as you document how you are solving your own problems. That's how it works here in GPL land. Eventually you'll come up with some level of solution, and it'll probably get refined by someone with a bit more knowledge and experience.
Yes, I could make stuff up and do the trial and error method as far as templates goes. Even a journey of thousands of steps starts off with the poor bastard at least knowing where their at, and where they are going before they even take the first step. Just a thought.
Joseph Dobransky
Howdy Cranky,
<div class='quote'>Even a journey of thousands of steps starts off with the poor bastard at least knowing where their at, and where they are going before they even take the first step. Just a thought.</div>
We really don't want to make you feel like a poor bastard who doesn't even know where he's at. Really, we're trying to get things better documented...but I'm not sure what you're after here?
Defaults are merely defaults, and in most cases you don't need to care what they are, as most of them are perfectly reasonable defaults--when you copy the defaults, you only need to change the stuff that you know you want to be different. Usually this is just quotas and limits--most of the rest is for rather advanced types of stuff.
A whole lot of flexibility is built in, but just because you can change a bunch of stuff, doesn't mean you need to! For most folks, they'll just want to copy the default template once or twice, click through and change a few quotas to be bigger, and maybe choose which database is enabled by default. Maybe, if you're offering a specific application hosting service, you might choose to pre-install one or more applications with the Install Scripts. But that's about it. You don't need to go spelunking into the depths of Server Templates unless you know you want something specific that's out of the ordinary for a hosting system. Don't let the flexibility frustrate you out of just diving in and giving it a try--you'll find it's a lot easier than you think, and you'll find you dont' need to touch 90-95% of the settings. They're just there for when you do find that you need to do something that 90% of people don't need to do (but Virtualmin makes it possible, because we're really flexible like that).
If you'll ask a specific question, we'll answer it, quick-like. As it stands right now, we're just going in circles with me apologizing for not having had time yet to document all of the options as completely as we'd like, and you feeling like I'm ignoring a valid request. We're documenting as fast as we can, but we're also running full speed on making the UI easier to use and better looking (the better a UI is, the less documentation it needs, so we're coming at the problem from both sides), fixing bugs, maintaining the packages, and more. I'm not ignoring the request for more documentation. I agree--more documentation is always good. But so is reducing bug count, improving the UI, improving the packages that we provide, etc.
Give us a clue what you're trying to accomplish, that you're finding you can't accomplish just by trying it, and we'll either fix the UI to make it easier, or we'll improve the documentation for those specific problems. Just saying, "I think the Server Templates documentation should be better right now" is saying, "I think you should take four or five days off of everything else you're doing to work solely on Server Templates documentation". And of course, the moment we make Server Templates easier to use, all of the documentation goes out the window, since we're working on making Server Templates more discoverable as we speak.
Sorry, I'm a bit frustrated at being unable to help. I can tell you're not enjoying the experience of getting Virtualmin to doing what you'd like it to do, and I'd like to help...but I don't see how. We need a specific question to go on!
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Thanks for all the help. I appreciate it.
Joseph Dobransky
what you can do is choose a different template as the initial chosen one.
Initially selected template for top-level servers? Yes
Initially selected template for sub-servers? yes or no
Done i, but i dont wanna show the default to my resellers.
Edit the Default Server Template, and set "Available to resellers" to None or "Only selected".
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MMMM nop, doesnt work
Joe,
I have the same problem as 'alinconet', as the "Available to resellers" settings has not saved into the "Default Settings" and "Default Settings For Sub-Servers" server templates.
I really need to disable them for my resellers, as each reseller has unique DNS zone setting (NS, MX, etc.) in the template for their own.
I use the latest Webmin 1.470 and Virtualmin Pro 3.67.
Please help us!
Many thanks.
I just wanted to offer that I'm not ignoring you, I simply have no idea ;-)
If you don't hear anything back regarding this within 24 hours or so of posting it, I'd recommend filing a bug report -- hopefully Jamie will know the answer, or if it's a bug, he'll be able to correct it. Thanks!
-Eric
If something doesn't work, that'd make it a bug. No use talking about it. File a bug in the tracker. ;-)
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I did it now: FS#5761